36· Overcoming Your Imposter With Emma Burlow
Podcast show notes
Join me this week as I chat with sustainability expert Emma Burlow.
With over 25 years in the field, Emma is now running her own company, Lighthouse Sustainability Limited, and serving as Chief Sustainability Officer at Revolution Zero.. She's also the Director and Chief Sustainability Officer for revolution zero.
We dive deep into impostor syndrome, sustainability, and the challenges of burnout and stress in the workplace. Don't miss this insightful conversation filled with real-life experiences and valuable advice for overcoming professional hurdles and personal doubts.
Join us for a session full of learning and empowerment.
Here are the highlights
(1:32) Sustainability and environmental issues.
(7:01) Impostor syndrome in sustainability careers.
(11:58) Fear of speaking up in training sessions.
(17:03) Overcoming anxiety and self-doubt in a consulting role.
(22:19) Stress, burnout, and sustainability in business.
(27:44) Burnout and sustainability in the workplace.
(33:17) Breaking down imposter syndrome and managing stress.
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Connect with Ruth
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Ruth
Welcome to Frustrated and Exhausted, the podcast for women in leadership, where I help you fulfill your ambitions without sacrificing your sanity, or your resilience.
Ruth
Hello, and welcome to this episode of Frustrated and Exhausted. Thank you for being with me today. And I'm sure you'll be glad you are. Today I'm joined by sustainability expert, Emma Burlow, who's had a 25 year career in sustainability and is now running her own company, Lighthouse Sustainability Limited. She's also the Director and Chief Sustainability Officer for Revolution Zero. Now today, Emma and I are talking all about impostor syndrome. We're also touching on sustainability and burnout and stress in the workplace. Join us for a great conversation.
Morning, Emma, thank you so much for being here today on Frustrated and Exhausted. It's great to see you
Emma
Thanks, great to be here.
Ruth
So we're going to be talking a bit today about impostor syndrome, what we're going to be talking about today about gender in your sector, just to kind of get us started off and warmed up, tell me a bit about how you got to where you are today.
Emma
Oh, wow. Thanks, Ruth. Well, I've been thinking a lot about this lately, because it's coming up to the 30th year, where I, you know, really entered this sector and 31 if you count my gap year, I guess where I went off around Australia doing some conservation work. So I've really been, I guess, in this world, since primary school, if I'm really honest, where I just, you know, found a love for nature and started to get concerned about things that were happening in nature. So you know, I wouldn't say I've really come, I'm not really an activist, I'm not really throwing myself into it, as some people today see, you know, look to be, but I came out of uni and didn't have an environmental science degree and came out of that thinking, “Well, I can either go and work with the turtles and dolphins and a beautiful part of the world or I can kind of tackle what's on my doorstep”. And what I saw as the biggest issue was what I was seeing, from my degree, and from my other work and conservation, industry and business really weren't seeing and there was this great sort of divide between the two.
So my Dad's an engineer, he didn't really understand where I was coming from, why I was doing what I was doing. And I thought, well, there it is, there's the there's the problem, you know, we've got all these brilliant brains and minds and engineers in industry. And we've got a looming pending problem. And that was back in the 90s and, you know, saving the whale and worrying about acid rain and things. So suddenly, nothing's really changed. In fact, you know, if anything, things have got a lot worse. So I went into business support, I've always wanted to help people I've always wanted to, I'm a doer. So I like getting things done. And back in the good old days, there was a lot of government support for this sort of topic. So I moved up through quite a few different government programs, and then in and out of consultancy for a couple of decades.
And then about four years ago, I decided to take a much more hands on role. And I founded Lighthouse, my own little company. We're four strong now. And I'm working hands on with businesses to advise them and to help them navigate. Hence, the lighthouse was a really complex subject. It's really hard to sort of initially know where to take action. So taking all that work I've done over the years with corporates and with startups and with government bodies and public sector and all sorts of you know, I've got a really broad general background and seeing how sustainability has changed. I've just about heard every question and I've just about seen every kind of project and, and tests happen, you know, I can really help them. Pick the wheat from the chaff if you like and say, Well, what direction shall we take in this? This is quite a fast moving topic.
Ruth
Yeah. I can really, like feel almost you the passion and the energy that you have about this. How do you retain that sense of energy and hope? In the face of you know, what is, as you said, a problem that's getting worse rather than better?
Emma
Yeah, interesting. I've never done anything else. I wouldn't say it's a calling. That's a bit too much. You know, what else would I do? It's one of those jobs. You just think Well, yeah. I was wanting to be a doctor. You know, I sort of sometimes wish I'd gone into medicine. I'm a scientist by kind of trade, I guess. But I just got up in the morning and just think this is a worthwhile thing to do. You know, this feels good. I love the people in the sector. I love working with businesses, I love seeing things going well. I love the win win you get from sustainability. So it's really hard to do sustainability and not have a positive outcome either on people or the planet. And quite often, you know, on the business as well, hopefully. So it just, you know, maybe it's the ultimate feel good career. But it's certainly not an easy one. So yeah, maybe I'm a glutton for punishment as well. I like a challenge, I guess I could put it that way.
Ruth
Yeah. Well, that's, that's kind of what we're all looking for, really, isn't it? A sense of purpose, and, you know, to be interested and challenged by kind of what we do, sort of like the Holy Grail of careers you’ve really got.
Emma
I mean, don't get me wrong, I've had my moments where I've stepped off, you know, I've always thought I could be a biology teacher or I, again, I'm a couple of times, I've sort of stepped off and thought I really wanted to do medicine actually go back and do that. But in a way, you know, what I do is a bit. It's a bit like being a doctor, but for the for the planet, you know, not too grandiose, but it's like, how do we solve these problems? Like what's wrong? You know, what do we know about it? What evidence have we got? What solutions have we got? And in the case of working with business, what can we afford to do? You know, that's the layer. But even that's the same in the NHS. Right? So yeah, so really, I guess it's about problem solving. You know, without the maths of being an engineer, because I was, wasn't great at maths, but I'm good at I, you know, I'm good at helping solve problems. And I'm a practical person. So I don't get too stuck in the weeds. I'm, you know, I'm all about getting on with it really.
Ruth
Now, when we kind of spoke in advance of this conversation we were talking about about imposter syndrome. What does that mean to you, when you think about impostor syndrome?
Emma
To me, I think it means back two decades of where I probably should have been pushing ahead a little bit more in my career. So I went to a comprehensive school, got really good grades at that school. But I was the first in my unit, first in my family to go to university, which I know is not uncommon. But going into what in the 90s was, the area I went into was waste recycling of resources was a very male dominated area. So I think I thought, you know, I wasn't entitled to earn a lot of money. You know, I think I thought that was for all the really academic and professional people, the people who had doctorates, and the people who were professors, and the people who had financial acumen and all those things. So it took me quite a long time to realize that I was actually quite good at what I do. So. And it's difficult to even say those words, I feel quite awkward. But I don't think I was ever really taught that.
I mean, I'm quite a confident person, but I think all of us have, you know, extroverted introvert qualities. So for me, it was always, you know, that feeling of not quite being good enough, not quite being moving in the right circles, not being able to, you know, just wouldn't have gone for some jobs that maybe I should have, maybe I really should have. And the other thing to remember, you know, 20-30 years ago, those jobs didn't exist, you know, sustainability managers, that role wasn't the thing. So we really had to, you know, I really had to, unless can look through a compliance route and through ISO and auditing and all these things that did exist. So yeah, it was it was quite hard to progress.
But in terms of impostor syndrome now, the thing that that it means to me is where I see so many people with great skills, great opportunities held back by impostor syndrome, and it drives me mad. Because there are loads of opportunities now. So I see this a lot. I train trainers. And so on my train the trainer, a lot of people say, particularly around things like climate “I'm not a climate scientist, I've got impostor syndrome, I don't feel like I can, you know, train other people in this”. And that's something I work really hard to, to help people with. Because you don't need to be a climate scientist. You just need to know enough to help other people. You know, this is about millions of people acting, not just those with doctorates and professorships and all the rest of it.
So, so it's really important to me now? I don't particularly struggle with it now myself, although I still, you know, I'm really nervous about different things. And I'm, but now I see everything with a sort of curiosity lens, I think what could be? Yeah, so some, something's changed in my head, but now it's really about helping other people can't afford to be held back by artificial things that are in our head. We haven't got time for that. So. So yeah, really, really keen on supporting people to, you know, I've got your back.
Ruth
It's really interesting what you see there about this tendency we have, to kind of think if I'm not the absolute pinnacle of expertise in a specific area, that means I can't do anything in that area
Emma
Yeah, we’re just gonna say it comes from, well, you know, dare I say, kind of social structures over the years, you know, being told to look up to people, you know, holding people in high regard, because they were the doctor or the vicar or the headmaster or whoever. Okay. And then when you know, when you get into the workplace, it's the CEO, and it's your boss and older. And no, you know, not, I think it's, just to go on a tangent slightly, it's slightly made more complicated by the topic, because sustainability, and particularly climate for some reason, and this is one of life's mysteries to me, is up for debate. Right? So lots of things in business. Say, if you were if you had 10 years experience in computer science, right? You can speak about that as a as an expert, probably. But 10 years experience in sustainability, someone's still gonna say to you, “Well, the thing is, you know, we don't really know, do we, we don't really know that science”. So there's always this nagging, thing in your head, if someone's going to undermine me, someone's going to ask me a question, which I don't know. You know, and I don't see that in other people. Other people might argue, but I don't see that in lots of other sectors. That your knowledge and experience might be questioned, you might be shut down. And I think it might never happen, but just the fear of it happening is enough to make people concerned and not want to put themselves out there and not want to put that hat on as a trainer.
Ruth
It’s been so politicized as well, hasn't it? That it kind of almost, you know, you see these narratives in the media as well. And, yeah, I can imagine that somebody would be quite easy for somebody who was a bit grumpy in the training room, that it kind of go, yeah, because they're gonna, you know.
Emma
I will say, it doesn't happen very often. But that's what I mean, it's the, it's the fear of it happening. I mean, you know, frankly, that's what holds us back more than anything, isn't, it's the fear of something happening, or the reality, fear of being judged, you know, the fear of someone disagreeing with you the fear of you having to argue your way out of a corner. And so what I do is I train people to say, you know, you're not the, you're not the font of all knowledge. You're not that, you know, no one can be when you go and see your doctor, they're not the font of all medical knowledge. Okay? So and you're not even reporting to be a doctor, you're just reporting to be a lonely trainer. And so I try and get people to think of themselves more as facilitators of, you know, the learning or of sharing the information. You know, it's a really fast moving topic. No one has all that knowledge. And actually, the whole point of science, is that we're continually looking at the uncertainties. That's the same in any scientific field.
So this whole kind of as you said, politicized thing is really messy. And it Yeah, it has quite a big influence, I think on people in, in the sector, not wanting to speak out, you know, look at look at some, you know, people on the, on the stage, Greta and others, they're completely one end of, of the of the sector, if you like, lately different to the work I do, but it still sometimes somehow comes into the conversation. I don't think you see that in finance or, you know, accounts or any, any other departments. I don't think you see that.
Ruth
Yeah, certainly not in the same way or imagine with the same level of vitriol that, you know, people can get about these issues. Coming back to sort of the human experience of imposter syndrome and the impact that it had. You kind of described that. That's not where you are now. What changed?
Emma
I think lots of things happen in life don't know, external to work. And I think I know it's a cliche to say You know, as you get a bit older, etc, etc. But what I found, I found two things which are quite conflicting as I get older. So I turned 50 in September. And one is that I, I give far less of a damn about things, okay, and what I mean is what other people think. Because I've seen many, many people fall on their sword. You know, pride comes before form and all that sort of thing. So I sort of got a measure of people that I didn't have 20 years ago. But the other thing that's happened to me, and I don't know, whether it's menopause, or whatever, is my anxiety levels. I was never an anxious person. So I'm sort of balancing these two things. And I think what I've done is I kind of looked at it and gone, oh, this is a bit different. Not only am I kind of not caring what people think so much, but I'm absolutely shit scared. So I'm me, I've think I've worked out that it's just my brain playing tricks on me. And it's not a real thing. Because it's not one and it's not the other. So I'm like, Oh, this is how I feel today. So I've done work with various coaches over the years. And, you know, without going into lots of detail, but things happen to you outside of work. And I have a strong sense of what's the worst that can happen partnered with, you know, an existential crisis that's going on outside our window. So, so I think it's, and I don't always feel that confident or that comfortable, don't get me wrong, but I think I've somehow pushed through it, Ruth, you know, because my, I look at my career, as, you know, another 10-
15 years max. So when I look at that, I think, well, I can't afford to not do this stuff. You know, because otherwise, I'm going to sit on my rocking chair thinking oh, I was, you know, didn't really do the things I wanted to do. So had I done that a bit earlier, maybe, you know, I'd have reached loftier heights. But you know, I'm really I'm really happy with, with where I am now and my kind of plans for the future.
Ruth
What do you love most about where you are now?
Emma
Oh, what a great question. I think I love being the master of my own destiny. I think, you know, a lot of people who are self employed say, they get you get to the point of being unemployable. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm sure Sam, my previous CEO, might agree or disagree, but you get to a point where you just want to say what you're thinking. And you can't always do that in a in an employed, you know, environment or not least in a corporate environment. And, you know, one of my longest running clients says, you know, the reason why we hire you as an advisor, because we want you to challenge us, you know, we want you to push us, that's quite difficult from sometimes from a traditional consultancy point of view, because you're sort of, you know, you're a little bit leaning towards telling the client what they want to hear. So I like shaking things up, you know, I like seeing people push themselves a little bit out of their comfort zone. And so I can really do that in this job. You know, I'm bringing people through a process, if I'm training or advising them, of maybe being in the dark, about sustainability, not knowing what to do to a position of kind of feeling empowered, and able to act. And, you know, I've worked with people who've said, this has really changed me, you know, this has really changed how I view the world how I changed my job, and people who've gone on to be great trainers who had no sustainability background at all. So maybe the teacher in me, that's the most rewarding thing I can do is pass on my skin skills, and my passion, that's the right word to other people, because there's a kind of saying, in our sector, every job is a climate job. And you could say that every job ought to be doing something better for humanity, whether it be socially or environmentally otherwise, what's the point? And so, you know, I guess it's rewarding just knowing that I'm kind of growing that army of people in my own in my own little way.
Ruth
Growing an army, now there's an ambition!
Emma
You know, everybody needs one!
Ruth
So true. So true. What do you say to yourself when you know because as much as we can build our confidence and you talk thing about menopause related, potentially anxiety and anxiety is going up? And I recognize that definitely actually in myself.
Emma
I know Yeah.
Ruth
What do you say to yourself when you have those moments of doubt? Do you have the little wobbles? Because we all have them, don't we?
Emma
Yeah. And sometimes they last days, I say to myself… Wow, um, yeah, yeah, good question. You know, I've been through a phase of the kind of breath work and mindfulness and all these sorts of things. And I think the thing that works best for me is trying to recognize what's happening. And I always remember this, this, someone saying to me that, you know, the chemicals that make us anxious are exactly the same chemicals that make us excited. Adrenaline is the thing for me, you know, I thrive off it, but it also wears me out. And it also makes me you know, a bag of nerves sometimes. So I think it's about finding something that you feel comfortable with. And using that as a bit of an anchor, I guess it's a bit like sort of grounding yourself. But you can't always ground yourself. When you're flying across London, or the tube late, you know, and you're rushing and your shoes are hurting, and you're dragging a suitcase, you can't you know, it was great. But for me, I've always found I'm not a performer, but I feel like it's might be the same for people who are on stage is the minute you press go, the minute you get into your thing, it'll be fine. Okay, it just feels a bit shit at the moment, for example, training some pretty big names, and some pretty senior people in those positions. They are also humans who happen to go to work. And, you know, I'm in a position where I can share some stuff with them. So I think I, you know, that might just make them better humans might just make them happier humans who know, it might not have any impact on us at all.
So I guess it's about a couple of things. One is about, you know, it's a privilege to have that role and to be invited. And all this anxiety stuff, you know, is just is annoying, but I just have to put it in a box and going, oh, there's that thing again. That's what I get when I'm running late. That's when I get when I'm not prepared. That's when I get when I'm a little bit nervous. But actually, maybe I'm just excited. And maybe I can find seven minutes to do some prep. So I've broken it down. Reason I think what I didn't have 10 or 20 years ago was I didn't have that skill of breaking it down. It was just I was just stressed. Yeah. And I spent too many years of my career stressed. You know, yeah. Hit the bottom twice. And maybe you learn from that.
Ruth
Yeah, I think you do. I've had I've had periods in my career where I've kind of been bouncing along the bottom, still churning stuff out, still performing, but really struggling to do that. And it's, it's the combination of all the things usually that that are going on that lead to that sense of stress and anxiety and kind of not quite being on top of everything.
Emma
Yeah, and I wouldn't wish that on anybody at all. But I have to say, once you've been there, at least once, you know, a lot of us have done it more than once you recognize it sooner. And I've just, you know, I just don't accept that. That's something I'm going to do again, I'm not going to do that again, for anybody. And partly, that's about you know, maybe that's bad being self employed. And I still put a lot of stress on myself. But it's my own stress. I can control it. So my life certainly isn't stress free. Whose is, but yeah, I think and again, I really don't I hope no one ends up there. But if you can recognize it before it gets to that point, I think that's really useful, because all it does is undermined you ultimately, no stress is so debilitating.
So yeah, if you thought you had impostor syndrome, before you were stressed, you're gonna feel ton of it when you are stressed. So it just doesn't put you in in your best light. And I think just trying to do things, other things in life, other things outside of work, you know, I ran a marathon recently, my first ever marathon. And what doing things like that just teach you is you know, just get out of your own way. No, I think I think that was the worst thing about periods of stress. It's just, you're undermining yourself every day by repeating the same behavior. So I don't have magic solutions. I think I've just had long enough to work it out.
Ruth
By I think you live and you learn, don't you? And I think what you said there about learning to reflect on what's unrecognized, what's actually going on for you, regardless of anybody else, that their stuff what's actually going on for you and being able to break that down. And really what you described there was then finding a reframe, finding a different way of thinking about it so that you can do with it and move forward in whatever way is right for you. Yeah, that's great advice for anybody. Do you think do you think stress and burnout are particularly high in in sustainability? Is it an issue?
Emma
It's a massive issue. And I think there's a couple of reasons for that. It's quite a new role for a lot of businesses. I was talking to somebody about this a few a few months ago. And we basically came to the conclusion that her job description, her job was to pick up everything else that there wasn't a home for, you know, everything in the business that didn't have a home, fell on her desk. So it might be, you know, supplier audits, might be the usual sort of things, you think about environmental reporting or compliance. Climate, and then it might be things like, diversity, oh, we haven't got anywhere for that. We'll put that with, you know, it might be charity giving, I mean, it just goes on and on and on. And all these things ought to have a home somewhere. But often in businesses who've never looked at sustainability, and remember, sustainability is three pillars. You know, planet, sometimes I talk about Planet, people profit. My argument is, our ESG, environmental, social and government governance. Once you've got those three things, there's actually nothing left in the business. Governance is how you run the business, people is your people, what social is your customers, and planet, or environmental is your resources, your your emissions, your everything else, and so there's nothing else left. So it becomes a very catch all job. Now, you know, other, some people have got it a little bit more nailed than that. But I was reading something over the weekend, on LinkedIn, and it was about trying to shoot for a moving target. So sustainability moves so quick, you know, it's new, it's evolving. We've gone through so many different job titles, we've gone through so many different kinds of lenses. So yeah, it's really difficult for people I think it's just a never-ending kind of piece. And then you've got the whole reason probably why you went into that sector is that its heart led, that you care, that you give a shit. So it's very difficult, then to be massively hard-nosed about it. Because you really want that environmental program to work. You really want that circular business model to get off the ground, you really want those suppliers to have a better income. And so, it falls on you. Yeah, it weighs heavy on you, maybe heavier than it would if it was just a, you know, tick a box numbers on a spreadsheet, you know, roll this program out type job.
Yeah, it's a bit of a bit of a kind of crazy cocktail, that isn't it sort of, you know, you can do all the things, here, all the things to do. And at the same time, you're someone who is driven and you know, coming purpose, you're gonna just say yes, you gotta say yes. And you we started today with saying, you know, me, you're so passionate if I had a pound for everybody who said that, and, and I'll be really honest, it's not you, but sometimes, it really rubs on me, particularly when people are asking you questions on a panel, and then they sort of say, oh, Emma, you're, you know, you're really passionate about this. And you immediately think, oh, that's patronizing me. If I didn't think that when I was genuine, genuine and I am a passionate person, I wouldn't get up in the morning and do it if I wasn't completely fine with that. But you know, it's a sort of when there's a buck coming. Yeah. So little bit like, oh, Isn't it lovely? You love all the birds and the bees, but where are our big, you know, fancy pants, business people, you know? So that's where it's difficult. So usually taken on, and we're talking particularly about women, and that's, you know, all I can really talk about, I guess, in my experience, it's often you get taken on because, you know, but people knowmyou're gonna take everything on and you're gonna give it your best shot. And then inevitably, you know, burnout can happen.
The other driver, I think the burnout that I'm seeing is where people are working their socks off. And they're just seeing no change. They're just seeing no change at the top, they just see no intention. And they just become utterly deflated. You know, and so there's a bit of movement in the industry, where it's like, Oh, I've been here for three years banging my head against a brick wall. I'm gonna go and try this other corporate and see if that you know if I can make a difference. So their impact impact jobs, you know, impact driven jobs. And I know there are lots of impact driven jobs across all sectors not just embedded clearly. But it seems to be, you know, it seems to be pretty tough.
Ruth
What advice would you give someone who's kind of in one of those roles, and can feel themselves struggling? Or might be listening to this and thinking, Oh, that's describing me.
Emma
Like I said, it might not be a sustainability role. You know, I'm sure there are lots of other roles, and it can be a bit lonely. You know, lots of people find that I listened to your podcast on loneliness at the weekend, you know, it can be a bit lonely, if you feel a bit like you're fighting the good fight, you know, and you've got to keep turning up and answering questions about just stop oil, and all these things, which really aren't that relevant to your day job. So you feel, you know, a bit lonely sometimes.
So for me, it's really important. Two things are really important. One is that you've got good people around you, and that might not necessarily be in your own company. So finding people who's, you know, who've got your back, I think is really, really, really key. It's a bit of a cliche, you know, find your tribe, but it's not that they might well not be sustainability people. So when I left consultancy, and started Lighthouse, as anyone would be, I was absolutely bricking it, you know, I was really terrified. And we were in lockdown and all that stuff. And a couple of people I phoned, who just said, “you know, you've got it Emma, and ring me, you know, whatever you need, just ring me”. So I think you need a couple of people like that, you need some anchors. To be that person, I am that person for a couple of people, which I'm really proud of. But I'm, I'm happy to be that person. Because it doesn't take a lot of time. It's just getting rid of the collywobbles or whatever it is, the thing that's dominating your brain may not be the most important thing you need to think about. So discharge that on someone else, have some have a reality check.
And I think the other thing that's kind of struck me as I've got older is you're not going to solve this. We can't, you're not going to solve this in a year or three years, or probably not even in your career. So when you work out that it's a long game, suddenly, a bit of that pressure comes off. And my advice would be, you know, focus on the legacy that you're gonna leave, and I've only just started doing this now, you know, the ripples that you can create the changes that you can make. And if you think about all the big sort of social movements that have happened was particularly around women, lots of the women who were in them at the time, didn't get to see the results. So what we're doing now sustainability and climate is gonna take decades to move, you know, and you might not even be in that in the workplace, then. For me, it's about what you know, what rocks, can you move? What foundations can you build? You know, who can you bring on board? What mines? Can you change? Just being a lever, rather than I think I thought had to solve it all. And if I didn't, I'd failed.
Ruth
Yeah, so it's, it's almost redefining, in that context, what success looks like for you so that it is achievable. It's got to be achievable.
Emma
Yeah, yeah, none of us are gonna solve climate change, none of us are going to learn, you know, a capitalist society into a, into a sustainable one overnight. And that's where the anxiety comes from, for people, but that's kind of productive. You know, it takes time to change. And I've got every, every optimism that we that we will change, you know, but it's not gonna be done in the next three years.
Ruth
Emma, thank you so much for your time today. That has been absolutely brilliant. I could chat about this all day. And I'm sure we'll continue the conversation elsewhere. But yeah, thank you for joining me today. It's been great.
Emma
Brilliant. Thanks, Ruth.
Ruth
Some absolutely brilliant points in there from Emma. Some of the things that stood out to me I think were the kind of process that she went through in terms of learning to break down and break out of the imposter syndrome, stuff that was kind of holding her back in things like reflecting and learning to recognize what's going on, breaking down whatever the issue is, you know, trying to be realistic about what's possible in order to reduce that sense of overwhelm that's going on, you know, bite sized chunks really helped those things.
I think there was something in there as well about contextualizing you know that asking yourself what's the worst that could happen? It's something I use a lot as well. And I think it really helps you find perspective and put things in their proper place, you know, is this something massive that I really need to stress about? Or actually, in the grand scheme of things is this just something that I'm going to do. It helps you then manage the way that you feel about it and reduce any anxiety and stress around it.
And I think that point that she made about, actually all that stuff that's running around in our brains, it's not real. It might feel real a lot of the time. But very often we're telling yourself stories about these things, aren't we? And if it's a story that we're telling ourselves, if it's a belief that somehow is just kind of been ingrained in us, and you know, it's not real, we can change that. And we can have choices about what we tell ourselves. And that gives us back off in a sense of control when things can feel like they're a bit much. So really taking that step back and reminding ourselves that often these things are stories that we tell ourselves.
If stress or burnout, or impostor syndrome are impacting you at the moment, try downloading my Five Day Resilience Kickstarter, completely free. And it's a brilliant way just to really help you start that process of reflection. Start thinking about your stress levels and start kind of thinking about how you can manage them in the best way possible for you. Or if you feel that you need something a bit more than that at the moment that you need to can have a real safe, calm space to think and to be prompted to reflect. Then feel free to book a call or pop the links for both of those things in the show notes. And also the contact details for Emma if you want to hook up with her on LinkedIn. Take care. Have a great week and thanks again for joining us today.
Thanks for listening to this episode of Frustrated and Exhausted! Hit the Follow button for future episodes. You can also follow me on Instagram at Resonate Leadership and LinkedIn at Ruth Alexandra Wood. I would absolutely love to hear from you. Frustrated and Exhausted is brought to you by Resonate Leadership and the wonderful team at the Podcast Boutique. I'm your host Ruth Wood. Take care and speak to you soon.
